Perhaps a quote from Terminator 2 is apt here. Teenage John Conner asks the Terminator if people will "make it". In the background, young boys play with toy guns. The Terminator (almost playing himself as Arnold Schwarzenegger) responds: "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpEDSvaP_-8
I’ve always said that I believe humans will become extinct soon, and that I believe we deserve it. I know it’s human nature to fight for survival, but I think it’s pretty futile at this point.
It probably is, at this point. The difference between us and our hunter-gatherer ancestors is that we know better now. But certainly, in this zero-sum late-stage capitalism game, everyone feels like they're just trying to survive.
Sapiens is nothing but a bunch of pseudo-science, same with Germs, Guns and Steel.
Hunter Gatherers and Paleolithic Humans are/were not happier, more peaceful, more sane not more respectful of the environment at all. The Noble Savage is a delusion that only White Western people seem to believe in.
Well I certainly don't believe everything Harari says in Sapiens, and part of what bummed me about reading it was the realization that we humans have always been destructive. Nor do I go for the noble savage idea. I do, though, think that in general, people have been happier in many hunter-gatherer societies than in agricultural ones, at least those we have evidence of — both from modern observations and from writing from times like the 1700s. As I indicate here, I know I'm romanticizing them — and I kind of can't help myself. I realized this is a nuanced topic, though, and one that would take more than 1500 words to cover thoroughly.
Wow! That was a lot! I appreciate your courage to go where I don't. And to have a great perspective laid out for me. I have grappled with this whole notion that humans haved achieved a level of enlightenment that separates us from other animals. What I end up with is a belief that, though that may be so, we are still animals with a tribal nature, trying to reach superiority over others in order to ensure our existence. I think what you shared kind of sums it up. That being said, we can all use a little compassion. Thanks again, for a great say.
I just recently read this book also, and instead of focusing on the horrors of our past (and there were many) instead I was struck by the ingenuity and ability to shift the future with small decisions. I also loved that story was the piece that has elevated us from the animal and into what makes us human.
Thanks for this post. A great perspective on a piece I’ve just recently read.
Thank you! There was so much to that book, much more than I could write about here. I also appreciated the perspective on story, which I hadn't thought of that way.
I always knew there were horrors in the past, but I had this idea that hunter-gatherers were better because they generally lived in a better way. I still think that, but it was a lot to read about the destruction that even they caused. And again, my timing for reading this book wasn't the best. ;-) I'm still glad I read it, though!
I have "Sapiens" at the top of my Read Next pile by to the bed, but now I'm not so sure. While it's probably a great book, my positive attitude is a bit challenged these days with all of the chaos emanating out of our government, so I'm not sure if I want to add any more potential "bummers" to it. Thanks for reading it and giving us a preview and a warning, though!
We read it for my book group, and not everyone had that reaction — though one other woman did. If I'd managed to write this right after reading Sapiens, my piece would have come out differently, but fortunately, my feelings have mellowed some since reading it. I'd still recommend the book, and although it's gotten some critiques, it seems like a good overview of our history. But it's true that some parts of our history don't paint us in the best light, and now isn't the ideal time to read about those.
You’re having such deep interesting thoughts. I’m the opposite. These days I can barely put a sentence together, either in my brain or on paper. I hope it’s temporary.
Thank you for your thought-provoking essay, Romanticizing Hunter-Gatherers. Your exploration into the idealization of pre-agricultural societies sheds light on the complexities of human history and the narratives we construct around it. While some anthropologists, like Marshall Sahlins, have referred to hunter-gatherers as the "original affluent society" due to their ability to satisfy material needs with minimal labor, it's essential to recognize that such societies also faced challenges, including limited resources and vulnerability to environmental changes. Additionally, the portrayal of these societies as inherently egalitarian has been critiqued, with evidence suggesting that disparities in status and wealth existed, albeit to a lesser extent than in later agricultural societies. Your essay encourages a nuanced understanding of history, prompting readers to question oversimplified narratives and consider the diverse experiences of human societies.
Thank you for your generous and insightful comment. I appreciate your engagement with the essay and your thoughtful reflections on the complexities of interpreting hunter-gatherer societies. You’re absolutely right to highlight the tension between romanticized portrayals and the realities these communities faced, including environmental vulnerability and social dynamics that may have been more stratified than often assumed. The reference to Sahlins's "original affluent society" was intended to provoke precisely this kind of critical dialogue — one that challenges simplistic narratives while also examining the values and assumptions we bring to our interpretations of the past. I’m grateful that my work resonated with you and helped spark deeper consideration of these issues.
(In an exception to my usual rule, this was written with ChatGPT, to match the comment I'm responding to.)
Perhaps a quote from Terminator 2 is apt here. Teenage John Conner asks the Terminator if people will "make it". In the background, young boys play with toy guns. The Terminator (almost playing himself as Arnold Schwarzenegger) responds: "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpEDSvaP_-8
It sure does seem that way!
I’ve always said that I believe humans will become extinct soon, and that I believe we deserve it. I know it’s human nature to fight for survival, but I think it’s pretty futile at this point.
It probably is, at this point. The difference between us and our hunter-gatherer ancestors is that we know better now. But certainly, in this zero-sum late-stage capitalism game, everyone feels like they're just trying to survive.
Sapiens is nothing but a bunch of pseudo-science, same with Germs, Guns and Steel.
Hunter Gatherers and Paleolithic Humans are/were not happier, more peaceful, more sane not more respectful of the environment at all. The Noble Savage is a delusion that only White Western people seem to believe in.
Well I certainly don't believe everything Harari says in Sapiens, and part of what bummed me about reading it was the realization that we humans have always been destructive. Nor do I go for the noble savage idea. I do, though, think that in general, people have been happier in many hunter-gatherer societies than in agricultural ones, at least those we have evidence of — both from modern observations and from writing from times like the 1700s. As I indicate here, I know I'm romanticizing them — and I kind of can't help myself. I realized this is a nuanced topic, though, and one that would take more than 1500 words to cover thoroughly.
Wow! That was a lot! I appreciate your courage to go where I don't. And to have a great perspective laid out for me. I have grappled with this whole notion that humans haved achieved a level of enlightenment that separates us from other animals. What I end up with is a belief that, though that may be so, we are still animals with a tribal nature, trying to reach superiority over others in order to ensure our existence. I think what you shared kind of sums it up. That being said, we can all use a little compassion. Thanks again, for a great say.
Thank you so much, Sandy, that's very kind of you to say! I certainly don't feel courageous. But I'm so glad this spoke to you.
You aren’t writing into the void!
I just recently read this book also, and instead of focusing on the horrors of our past (and there were many) instead I was struck by the ingenuity and ability to shift the future with small decisions. I also loved that story was the piece that has elevated us from the animal and into what makes us human.
Thanks for this post. A great perspective on a piece I’ve just recently read.
Thank you! There was so much to that book, much more than I could write about here. I also appreciated the perspective on story, which I hadn't thought of that way.
I always knew there were horrors in the past, but I had this idea that hunter-gatherers were better because they generally lived in a better way. I still think that, but it was a lot to read about the destruction that even they caused. And again, my timing for reading this book wasn't the best. ;-) I'm still glad I read it, though!
I have "Sapiens" at the top of my Read Next pile by to the bed, but now I'm not so sure. While it's probably a great book, my positive attitude is a bit challenged these days with all of the chaos emanating out of our government, so I'm not sure if I want to add any more potential "bummers" to it. Thanks for reading it and giving us a preview and a warning, though!
We read it for my book group, and not everyone had that reaction — though one other woman did. If I'd managed to write this right after reading Sapiens, my piece would have come out differently, but fortunately, my feelings have mellowed some since reading it. I'd still recommend the book, and although it's gotten some critiques, it seems like a good overview of our history. But it's true that some parts of our history don't paint us in the best light, and now isn't the ideal time to read about those.
Quite excellent...! thanks Rosana!
Thank you so much, Dominic!!
You’re having such deep interesting thoughts. I’m the opposite. These days I can barely put a sentence together, either in my brain or on paper. I hope it’s temporary.
Oh, I've been there. I felt that way most of the beginning of this year. It will pass. Have you read this book? https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Fire-Clarissa-Pinkola-Est%C3%A9s/dp/1591793874 — very short, and a good reminder of how these things ebb and flow.
I’ll check it out. Thanks Rosana.
Thank you for your thought-provoking essay, Romanticizing Hunter-Gatherers. Your exploration into the idealization of pre-agricultural societies sheds light on the complexities of human history and the narratives we construct around it. While some anthropologists, like Marshall Sahlins, have referred to hunter-gatherers as the "original affluent society" due to their ability to satisfy material needs with minimal labor, it's essential to recognize that such societies also faced challenges, including limited resources and vulnerability to environmental changes. Additionally, the portrayal of these societies as inherently egalitarian has been critiqued, with evidence suggesting that disparities in status and wealth existed, albeit to a lesser extent than in later agricultural societies. Your essay encourages a nuanced understanding of history, prompting readers to question oversimplified narratives and consider the diverse experiences of human societies.
Thank you for your generous and insightful comment. I appreciate your engagement with the essay and your thoughtful reflections on the complexities of interpreting hunter-gatherer societies. You’re absolutely right to highlight the tension between romanticized portrayals and the realities these communities faced, including environmental vulnerability and social dynamics that may have been more stratified than often assumed. The reference to Sahlins's "original affluent society" was intended to provoke precisely this kind of critical dialogue — one that challenges simplistic narratives while also examining the values and assumptions we bring to our interpretations of the past. I’m grateful that my work resonated with you and helped spark deeper consideration of these issues.
(In an exception to my usual rule, this was written with ChatGPT, to match the comment I'm responding to.)